I agree with Annette in the choice for this book. I probably wouldn't have picked it up on my own but am really glad that I read this. I've always had a weird fascination with World War II and had never heard much from this perspective before. I felt entirely naive as I was reading about this woman's life and all that she was encountering. How is it that in history classes we only hear about the suffering and hardships that happened to the Jews (not to be disrespectful by any means) and not more about what happened to normal citizens who were just trying to live their lives while the world around them was crumbling?
After having her life so torn apart, I am sure that Anonymous was thankful to be able to write it all down. I am prone to venting my frustrations and as I was reading could feel the same tone in her words as when I vent. (Not that I have anything to compare in my life with hers but the idea of venting was the same.)
I wondered as I read how I would have handled this situation had I been in her shoes. I again agree with Annette. I wouldn't have felt compelled to commit suicide, at least I don't think I would have. I might have hid. I might have accepted my fate knowing that I might be safer if I cooperated. I don't know. How awful to have to face the uncertainty of food, rape, war, disease, and pregnancy all at once!
One of the things that Anonymous said that touched me more than others was the following quote. It was found in the beginning of the book, before much of the horrors were taking place, and yet I got the feeling that Anonymous knew what was coming.
"Why are we so appalled at the thought of children being murdered? In three to four years the same children strike us as perfectly fit for shooting and maiming. Where do you draw the line? When their voices break? Because that’s what really gets me the most, thinking about these little boys: their voices, so high, so bright. Up to now being a soldier meant being a man. And being a man means being able to father a child. Wasting these boys before they reach maturity obviously runs against some fundamental law of nature, against our instinct, against every drive to preserve the species." Ugh! That just tears me up inside reading that. I think of my little boys and had we lived in that day and age how they would be soldiers way too soon - killing and possibly dying for a cause they could hardly understand, let alone support.
Overall, this book was touching. I feel more informed after reading this - more aware of the true meaning of "spoils of war." Thanks for recommending Jennie!
Monday, March 23, 2009
Thursday, March 12, 2009
A Woman in Berlin - annette's comments
Jennie, I am so glad that you picked this book. I'm not sure I would have voluntarily picked it. But I must admit I'm a little dwarfed at having to write a review because my thoughts are everywhere. I tried to find some "book club" discussion questions on line...to no avail...so here goes. So I'm going to start with a few thoughts and observations and see what you guys say and then write some more.
I love journals, diaries, and memoirs based on diaries. As if you haven't noticed I share a love of the genre (with 3 blogs, facebook, a desk diary, and even now twittering). I find that journaling helps me sort out my feelings, form opinions, gives me a distraction, helps me cement memories, helps me cope with memories, and much more. I can really see how her scribblings, her notes helped her keep sane, gave her life some structure when everything was out of her control. Some hid in the attic...she hid in her words.
The book all too well depicts the horrors of "collateral" damage in war. Both militarily (bombs) and socially/culturally/personally. This was a time before tv, radios were out (mostly), newspapers had stopped, no email, no phones for the most part, AND this was the end of a long hard war that had starved its people (on both sides) physically, mentally, spiritually. These were battered, beaten people even before the Russians got there.
I was fascinated in a macacre way with the many ways that the people dealt with the horrors. From suicide, to hiding in dark, cramped spaces (for weeks without knowing when it would end), to fighting, to being clever, to going along to get along, to becoming informers, and every thing else. Its one of the reasons I think it would be hard to know just exactly what we'd do...
The question of waht would I have done? I think I might have done what Anonymous did. I certainly wouldn't have ever committed suicide to avoid what was coming. I might hide my daughter in an attic. But I'm not sure I could sit in essentially a closet, just waiting, for what? for how long?. And then of course, the only ones that COULD do that were people who had people on the outside who could bring them food and water.
There are so many of things that could be discussed about the rape (or the "forced intercourse"). so many I don't know where to start. It seemed there were many "reasons" for it. From revenge, from pent up exhaustion and rage, from drunkeness, to a bizarre, distorted loneliness (not for the violent rape but the "agreements" that arose out of the whole mess), and others. Many of the soliders viewed these women as "conquered" as "the enemy" as I suppose that loosened what little (if any) sense of propriety remained after the grueling and never ending battles on the Russian/German frontiers. But it isn't always just when the army is the "invading army". Keri, Kelly and I read The Wedding Officer which is about Naples towards the end of the war when the US and its allies have liberated southern italy from the germans. Astonishingly, there was a lot of rape going on BY THE LIBERATORS. That was one of the sub plots in the book...what was the difference between life under the liberators versus under the nazis? AND the US ARMY decided to send whores beyond the German lines to the cities where the German soldiers took their R&R. They sent them up there to join whore houses so the German soldiers would get syphillis. That's right. They inspected women who had become prostitures in Naples (usually because they were starving and had already been raped and had no way to make a living)...if they had syphillis INSTEAD of treating them...they sent them to have sex with the Germans. This is true...not just fiction...the novel was based on a number of memoirs and military documents. So they were using women as ammunition...impersonal ammunition.
Just makes you wonder about men, some men, does it not?
Okay...I've run out of steam...but do have more to say. what have you got to say?
I love journals, diaries, and memoirs based on diaries. As if you haven't noticed I share a love of the genre (with 3 blogs, facebook, a desk diary, and even now twittering). I find that journaling helps me sort out my feelings, form opinions, gives me a distraction, helps me cement memories, helps me cope with memories, and much more. I can really see how her scribblings, her notes helped her keep sane, gave her life some structure when everything was out of her control. Some hid in the attic...she hid in her words.
The book all too well depicts the horrors of "collateral" damage in war. Both militarily (bombs) and socially/culturally/personally. This was a time before tv, radios were out (mostly), newspapers had stopped, no email, no phones for the most part, AND this was the end of a long hard war that had starved its people (on both sides) physically, mentally, spiritually. These were battered, beaten people even before the Russians got there.
I was fascinated in a macacre way with the many ways that the people dealt with the horrors. From suicide, to hiding in dark, cramped spaces (for weeks without knowing when it would end), to fighting, to being clever, to going along to get along, to becoming informers, and every thing else. Its one of the reasons I think it would be hard to know just exactly what we'd do...
The question of waht would I have done? I think I might have done what Anonymous did. I certainly wouldn't have ever committed suicide to avoid what was coming. I might hide my daughter in an attic. But I'm not sure I could sit in essentially a closet, just waiting, for what? for how long?. And then of course, the only ones that COULD do that were people who had people on the outside who could bring them food and water.
There are so many of things that could be discussed about the rape (or the "forced intercourse"). so many I don't know where to start. It seemed there were many "reasons" for it. From revenge, from pent up exhaustion and rage, from drunkeness, to a bizarre, distorted loneliness (not for the violent rape but the "agreements" that arose out of the whole mess), and others. Many of the soliders viewed these women as "conquered" as "the enemy" as I suppose that loosened what little (if any) sense of propriety remained after the grueling and never ending battles on the Russian/German frontiers. But it isn't always just when the army is the "invading army". Keri, Kelly and I read The Wedding Officer which is about Naples towards the end of the war when the US and its allies have liberated southern italy from the germans. Astonishingly, there was a lot of rape going on BY THE LIBERATORS. That was one of the sub plots in the book...what was the difference between life under the liberators versus under the nazis? AND the US ARMY decided to send whores beyond the German lines to the cities where the German soldiers took their R&R. They sent them up there to join whore houses so the German soldiers would get syphillis. That's right. They inspected women who had become prostitures in Naples (usually because they were starving and had already been raped and had no way to make a living)...if they had syphillis INSTEAD of treating them...they sent them to have sex with the Germans. This is true...not just fiction...the novel was based on a number of memoirs and military documents. So they were using women as ammunition...impersonal ammunition.
Just makes you wonder about men, some men, does it not?
Okay...I've run out of steam...but do have more to say. what have you got to say?
Thursday, February 19, 2009
April Book by Annette
now that we have february and march squared away...let's pick Outlander by Diana Gabaldon for April. And we have Outliers for May. So at this point then...once we've finished discussing February...we'll pick June...etc. etc.
A book for March
Well, I think the general consensus was that I should choose a book for March. I went round and round about what to choose because I am reading a fairly long book for one of my other book clubs in March, but I finally decided on "The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the first marines, and the secret mission of 1805" by Richard Zacks. Hopefully, it will be fairly captivating. The following is the book jacket summary.
"The declaration of war by Tripoli in 1801 marked the first foreign policy test of Thomas Jefferson's administration. Then, on Halloween of 1803, the unthinkable happened: The USS Philadelphia accidentally ran aground in Tripoli harbor and the Barbary Pirates captured three hundred U.S. sailors and marines. The Moslem ruler renamed the frigate "The Gift of Allah" and held the Americans as his slaves, to be auctioned at his whim." "Newspapers around the world proclaimed America's shame in headlines. Faced with this hostage crisis and an ongoing war with Tripoli, Jefferson dispatched diplomats and navy squadrons to the Mediterranean, but he also authorized a secret mission to overthrow the government there. This is the story of America's first overseas covert operation, one of the strangest, riskiest, most compelling adventures ever undertaken for love of glory and country." "Jefferson chose an unlikely man to lead the operation. Forty-year-old William Eaton was a failed diplomat, deeply in debt, who had been court-martialed from the Army. He saw this mission as a last chance to redeem himself and resurrect his career. His assignment was to find an exiled prince named Hamet hiding in Egypt and convince him to mount a civil war in Tripoli. But before Eaton even departed, Jefferson grew wary of "intermeddling" in the internal affairs of another nation and withdrew Eaton's supplies, weapons, and troops." "Astoundingly, Eaton - who was forced to beg cash from British merchants - persevered and found Hamet up the Nile and lured him to Alexandria, where he rounded up a ragtag force of European mercenaries and Bedouin fighters; Eaton then borrowed eight U.S. Marines - including fiddle-playing Presley O'Bannon - and led them all on a brutal march across five hundred miles of Libyan desert to surprise attack Tripoli." "After surviving sandstorms, treachery, and near-death from thirst, Eaton achieved a remarkable victory on "the shores of Tripoli" - commemorated to this day in the U.S. Marine Corps hymn. His triumph led to freedom for three hundred Americans and newfound respect for the young United States, but for Eaton the aftermath wasn't so sweet. When he dared to reveal that the president had abandoned him, Thomas Jefferson set out to crush him."--
"The declaration of war by Tripoli in 1801 marked the first foreign policy test of Thomas Jefferson's administration. Then, on Halloween of 1803, the unthinkable happened: The USS Philadelphia accidentally ran aground in Tripoli harbor and the Barbary Pirates captured three hundred U.S. sailors and marines. The Moslem ruler renamed the frigate "The Gift of Allah" and held the Americans as his slaves, to be auctioned at his whim." "Newspapers around the world proclaimed America's shame in headlines. Faced with this hostage crisis and an ongoing war with Tripoli, Jefferson dispatched diplomats and navy squadrons to the Mediterranean, but he also authorized a secret mission to overthrow the government there. This is the story of America's first overseas covert operation, one of the strangest, riskiest, most compelling adventures ever undertaken for love of glory and country." "Jefferson chose an unlikely man to lead the operation. Forty-year-old William Eaton was a failed diplomat, deeply in debt, who had been court-martialed from the Army. He saw this mission as a last chance to redeem himself and resurrect his career. His assignment was to find an exiled prince named Hamet hiding in Egypt and convince him to mount a civil war in Tripoli. But before Eaton even departed, Jefferson grew wary of "intermeddling" in the internal affairs of another nation and withdrew Eaton's supplies, weapons, and troops." "Astoundingly, Eaton - who was forced to beg cash from British merchants - persevered and found Hamet up the Nile and lured him to Alexandria, where he rounded up a ragtag force of European mercenaries and Bedouin fighters; Eaton then borrowed eight U.S. Marines - including fiddle-playing Presley O'Bannon - and led them all on a brutal march across five hundred miles of Libyan desert to surprise attack Tripoli." "After surviving sandstorms, treachery, and near-death from thirst, Eaton achieved a remarkable victory on "the shores of Tripoli" - commemorated to this day in the U.S. Marine Corps hymn. His triumph led to freedom for three hundred Americans and newfound respect for the young United States, but for Eaton the aftermath wasn't so sweet. When he dared to reveal that the president had abandoned him, Thomas Jefferson set out to crush him."--
Tuesday, February 17, 2009
How about....
How about we move Woman in Berlin to FEbruary (that was Jennie's pick?), move Outliers to April (that should give enough time....maybe to get it from library?...Rebecaa I think you picked Outliers?). so why doesn't Anne pick the March book? If you think we should move Outlier to May just in case...then we'll need an April book...ok now I've lost track...would that be my pick again?
Sunday, February 15, 2009
Jennie's Reply
We'll never come to an agreement - I love the sound of everyone else's suggestions. Outlander - read it a few years back and loved it. My mom would jump all over that one! The John and Abigail Adams one sounds good, as does the Thomas Jefferson one.
I have a copy of A Woman in Berlin - read it already and will read it again for the discussion. We could start it now.
As for pointers on getting books for cheap - my favorite way is to find a good used book store in my neighborhood. My old one would let me trade my books in for store credit and I would get new books. Just a thought.
I agree that three months out is where we should be as far as planning and all. So we should choose a new March book (if AWIB is the Feb book?), an April book and a May book.
I have a copy of A Woman in Berlin - read it already and will read it again for the discussion. We could start it now.
As for pointers on getting books for cheap - my favorite way is to find a good used book store in my neighborhood. My old one would let me trade my books in for store credit and I would get new books. Just a thought.
I agree that three months out is where we should be as far as planning and all. So we should choose a new March book (if AWIB is the Feb book?), an April book and a May book.
Anne's book ideas
Thanks everyone for considering my plight in getting books to read. (I hope I am not causing a problem.) Our library system is big but hard to get books that are new. The two local book groups that I am in have the same problem. I appreciate the advice on where to find books online that are cheap. I don't buy much online and so I really don't know where to find the cheapest books. I will look into purchasing some of the books suggested if we decide to read them.
As far as book suggestions go, I am willing to read just about everything. All of your suggestions sound great. Two books that are on my list to read are:
Nefertiti by Michelle Moran
The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the first Marines, and the Secret Mission of 1805 by Richard Zacks
There are no holds at my Library for March's book "A Woman in Berlin" if we wanted to start there while we work out the books for the next several months.
As far as book suggestions go, I am willing to read just about everything. All of your suggestions sound great. Two books that are on my list to read are:
Nefertiti by Michelle Moran
The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the first Marines, and the Secret Mission of 1805 by Richard Zacks
There are no holds at my Library for March's book "A Woman in Berlin" if we wanted to start there while we work out the books for the next several months.
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